A Conversation Between Rob McBride, Executive Director, New Language Solutions and Carol Derby, Manager, Program Evaluation & Research, ISANS
Introduction
Carol Derby has been a steady and influential voice in Canada’s settlement language training sector for over two decades. Based in Halifax with ISANS (Immigrant Services Association of Nova Scotia), she has worked across teaching, curriculum development, national frameworks, and now leads program evaluation and research.
In this conversation, Carol reflects on her journey into settlement language training, the rapid evolution of learning technologies, especially during COVID, and the importance of national standards like the CLB and curriculum guidelines. She also offers grounded, practical advice for navigating today’s funding challenges while keeping learners at the centre.
Generative AI was used to help organize and edit the original interview transcript. It helped break long answers into shorter sections, add clarifying questions, and improve readability, while keeping the interviewee’s words, meaning, and perspective intact.
Beginnings: Finding Purpose in Settlement Work
I’ve been working in the settlement sector since about 2001, so it’s been a long journey. I actually started overseas teaching English. When I came back to Canada, I worked in a private language school.
But I found that work wasn’t particularly fulfilling. Students would come, learn English, and then return to their home countries, often to places where they wouldn’t really use English again.
I realized I wanted something different. I wanted to work with people who were building new lives here in Canada.
So I moved into community-based settlement programming, and then into language training in 2002 as a LINC instructor. That’s really where things took off for me.
Yes, absolutely. It’s a very common trajectory, and I think it reflects a desire to make the work more meaningful and connected to people’s long-term lives.
Stepping into Leadership: Evaluation and Research
I’m currently the Manager of Program Evaluation and Research. It’s a relatively new role at ISANS. I stepped into it about a year and a half ago.
It’s been a really interesting shift, moving from more direct program work into a role where I can look at the bigger picture and see how programs are performing, what impact we’re having, and where we can improve.
The Evolution of Learning Technology
I think it’s quite varied across the country.
At ISANS, we’ve tended to stay ahead of the curve. We started working with online and blended programming as early as 2005 or 2006.
At the time, that was fairly innovative. But over the years, other organizations have caught up, especially during COVID.
It did. Honestly, that was the one silver lining.
COVID forced the entire sector to adopt technology in a way that might otherwise have taken many years. Instead, we compressed that learning curve into a fraction of that time.
And what was particularly striking is that even areas where people thought online learning wasn’t possible, like literacy training, were able to adapt.
Necessity really drove innovation.
Digital Skills as Core Skills
Absolutely. Digital skills are central.
Our clients need language skills, and they need soft skills, but they also need hard skills. And digital literacy is a critical part of that.
There are very few jobs in Canada today that don’t involve some level of technology. If learners don’t have those skills, they’re at a real disadvantage.
Technology as a Non-Negotiable
I wouldn’t say I have a personal vision, but as an organization, ISANS has always seen technology as a core tool, not an add-on.
At this point, it’s really non-negotiable.
We need to be integrating digital literacy and access to technology as early as possible in a client’s journey.
For some learners, like economic immigrants, this isn’t a major issue. They often arrive with strong digital skills.
But for others, particularly literacy learners or refugees with interrupted education, there can be a significant gap. And that gap needs to be addressed early and intentionally.
Building National Foundations: Curriculum Guidelines
Yes, I was one of the principal writers for the Guidelines, focusing on the CLB 5–8 levels.
It was a collaborative effort. We worked closely across all levels with other contributors. One of our priorities was ensuring a strong integration of digital technologies, recognizing how important they are in language learning today.
The Guidelines are a really valuable resource. They give instructors a shared framework and a repository of tools and information.
They also connect to other national resources, like Avenue and the Centre for Canadian Language Benchmarks, so everything is more accessible and integrated.
It really was. A lot of work, but very rewarding.
The Importance of National Standards
I’ve been part of the national consultation process, traveling across the country and speaking with hundreds of practitioners.
We’re just wrapping up the final reports now. That will feed into the next phase which is the revision of the CLB.
We really are.
Without national standards and shared tools, you risk everyone reinventing the wheel. But with the CLB and the Curriculum Guidelines, we have consistency across teaching, assessment, and programming.
It means we’re all speaking the same language, so to speak.
Linking Language and Work: Skills for Success
Yes, that was another exciting project with the CCLB.
I had been working with Essential Skills, what later became Skills for Success, since around 2004 or 2005, particularly in workplace language training.
When the framework was updated in the early 2020s, it became much more streamlined and user-friendly.
My role was as a content developer for the Language for Success Digital Toolkit, helping create a repository of tools and resources aligned with the framework. That repository is now available through the CCLB.
It’s especially useful for employment-focused language training. It brings together language skills and soft skills, like collaboration and adaptability, that are essential in the workplace.
From the Front Lines to Policy: The Role of NLAB
NLAB is incredibly valuable.
It creates a direct channel between the sector and IRCC. It allows us to share what’s happening on the ground like our successes, challenges, and concerns.
Written reports are important, but there’s nothing quite like hearing directly from people working on the front lines.
We can take what might seem like complex or overwhelming challenges and break them down so we can identify what’s really happening and propose practical solutions.
That’s where I think NLAB adds real value.
Navigating Challenging Times
It is a challenging time.
The sector tends to go through cycles including periods of growth and periods of constraint. Right now, we’re in a period of financial constraint.
But there are a few things that are really important.
First, flexibility. We need to be adaptable as circumstances change.
Second, being proactive. That means sharing challenges and potential solutions with colleagues, partners, and funders.
And finally, staying focused on the client.
At the end of the day, everything we do is about supporting newcomers. If we keep that at the centre, it helps guide decision-making, even in difficult times.
Looking Ahead
Just that, even in challenging times, this sector is incredibly resilient.
Immigration remains essential to Canada’s future, and that means our work remains essential too.
Closing
Thank you, Rob. It’s been a pleasure
ISANS offers a wide range of Pre-Arrival programs designed to support skilled immigrants and their families as they prepare to move to Canada. These services provide both employment and settlement support, helping newcomers make informed decisions and take confident steps toward a successful arrival.
